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This is amazing. I never realized that Mormons had their own little space science fiction drama. It’s almost as bad as the Scientology story we posted a few months ago except for no space-planes. The video we’ve posted below, tells the rough story of Mormonism and their ancient galactic history. Sadly the church doesn’t seem to talk much about the “early Gods” anymore, which is a shame because the story sounds awesome. They should make an Xbox 360 game out of it where you can beam in like “Mormon Jesus” kick butt and earn cool Mormon artifacts(that never existed). It’s all pretty ridiculous and entertaining but……there is one small part in the cartoon about some wiley people getting cursed with black skin. Uh-oh.
I hear ya knockin
Watch the Mormon Church of Latter Day Saints video below. You’ll flip…..
I’m still kinda sad that those damn dark skinned ones had to be such fence sitters and couldn’t be valiant and righteous like the light skinned ones. Oh Well……now they’re cursed with blackness forever. Shenanigans!
A few Quotes From the Source:
“…cursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing…the Lord God did cause a skin of BLACKNESS to come upon them (Book of Mormon 2 Nephi 5:21)”
“And . . . they were a mixture of all the seed of Adam save it was the seed of Cain, for the seed of Cain were black, and had not place among them (Pearl of Great Price Moses 7:22).”
1947 the First Presidency (supreme council) of the Church issued an Official Statement: “From the days of the Prophet Joseph Smith even until now, it has been the doctrine of the Church, never questioned by Church leaders, that the Negroes are not entitled to the full blessings of the Gospel.” (Statement of The First Presidency on the Negro Question, July 17 1947, quoted in Mormonism and the Negro, pp.46-7)
Also, if you don’t believe us about the “special Mormon underwear”, Google it.
This is for real - Mormon Underwear - No Bull
Related articles:
- Brigham Young University Lifts YouTube Ban (huffingtonpost.com)
- “Crap, I’m apologizing for my Mormonism again. Sorry.” (motleyvision.org)
- Mormon Church to Build 5 New Temples Worldwide (abcnews.go.com)
- Explosive Revelation on Mormon Church Involvement in Prop 8 (bilerico.com)
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Don’t forget that Mitt Romney is a Mormon!!!
Actually this is completely WRONG. The Mormon Church does NOT believe what this ridiculous article says at all. You might do a little research before finding some random anti-Mormon article and maybe just ASK a Mormon yourself. Or you could try going to the Mormon Church I’ve been to in Miami that is full of black people wall to wall. Please educate yourself before deciding to be the religious biggot that you complain that others are.
Ha ha ha ha ha ha!!!!! I just watched that ridiculous cartoon!!!!! Have you ever BEEN to a Mormon Church? Someone made this cartoon out of their imagination! Hello! How can you possibly be so sad as to believe whatever anyone puts on the internet? I’m still not believing you actually give credit to THIS! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Go meet with some actual missionaries and ASK where Mormons believe that God came from. The “fence-sitter” scam quotes are even older than this! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!!!!!!!!
I’ve known many Mormons, I’ve been to a Mormon Church, and I’ve studied other religions, cults, occult, denominations, etc. I know what I’m talking about. No, I am not Mormon. No I do not believe that all Mormons truly understand the founding beliefs of the Mormon church. I do believe that there are good Christians in the Mormon church who believe in the Bible and Jesus Christ as I believe in him.
The underwear is accurate.
I believe the core religion is a cult (not occult), meaning that for salvation they require more than simply faith in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. Their teachings about the ability to have someone be “saved and baptized” for you after you have died in order to you to go to heaven is not in Biblical. Their teachings of men having “celestial” bodies, wives, children is preposterous and again, not biblical. I could go through all of their doctrines and explain why each is not Biblical.
Having said that, I still believe their are Mormons who are true Christians, they simply have not gotten deep enough into the study of the religion to know all the crazy stuff yet.
If you’re not Mormon than why on earth would I think that you have the edge on understanding the Mormon Church. Have you even been through one of their Temples to study the doctrine? If you’re not Mormon than the answer is a big fat NO. I wouldn’t go to a Chevy dealership to ask about Fords. I mean seriously, it’s so ridiculous. The underwear is known as Temple garments. Just go to the actual source- lds.org and look up “temple garments” if you want to know more so you can study up on all your “secret” knowledge. It’s so unbelievably disrespectful in my opinion to post symbols that people hold sacred to their religion- online. Would you do that to a Muslim or would you do that to do that to another person fortunate enough for you to consider Christian? Why do you think that Temples were even built in Biblical times?
“Celestial bodies” aren’t people. They are referring to the heavens, like they do in the Bible. You can try to make it sounds as psycho as you want- but it all has a perfectly Biblical explanation. 1 Corinthians 15- 40-41
40 “There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.”
41 “There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.”
“Baptism for the dead” is for those that never had the chance to have the saving ordinance of baptism in this life. Jesus Christ himself was baptized to show us the example and the Bible says it’s necessary for salvation. Well, Mormons don’t believe that all the unbaptized people are just damned to hell. They believe that God is Just and has prepared a way for everyone to choose if they accept the ordinance of baptism or not. They don’t baptize dead people. They get baptized in proxy for them and then those people, without their physical bodies in death, can decide whether they accept it. From the Bible-
1 Corinthians 15:29-
29 “Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?”
Hello. In Corinthians, the principles of the Resurrection are being taught. And to prove that the Resurrection will indeed happen to all of us, it’s being pointed out that since people ARE baptized for the dead, there has to be a Resurrection, or there wouldn’t be a point.
If you try to understand something without a predetermined goal to prove it wrong or crazy, then you’re humbled enough to learn something. Even I know that.
“You might do a little research before finding some random anti-Mormon article and maybe just ASK a Mormon yourself.”
You might want to do a little research before accepting ANY book as divine inspired word of God. Just because some guy said it and tradition perpetuates it means nothing. Myth is a dangerous things.
And you might want to ask God who probably has knowledge than people who believe in their pastors.
You seem more interested in taking other men’s revelations from God than your own. What a shame. Go ahead and buy into what ever seems to work for you at the time.
Yeah great response. First of all, you don’t even know which church I go to. Second of all, did I not just say- Ask God? What part of this turned into “other men’s revelations” in your brain?
I don’t need to know what church, You quoting various scriptures as if they are fact is what I’m responding to.
So I guess you don’t believe in the scriptures. Then why insult other peoples’ churches? Why is it that some people that don’t believe feel the insecure need to insult one’s beliefs? If you were secure in your own beliefs, you wouldn’t put down what others believe.
Once again…….you quote scriptures as if their fact. Men wrote scriptures based on their revelations. Your faith has to lay is various church councils between 300-400 Ad during the canonization process that they chose books and lettter written by men and that the traditional beliefs that these are the inspired word of God. Otherwise they’re just men’s writing.
For example. You quote Corinthians but………..the writer, Paul came after Jesus. He never even met him alive. He had a spiritual experience on the side of the road with God and had an amazing story of starting the early church. But…………….many Christians today have amazing spiritual stories and insights. So the question is: What makes Paul’s letters to the early churches any more or less the word of God, than say, CS Lewis writing “Mere Christianity” (besides the fact that scripture was voted on and selected by the early church, and then somewhere down the line it was labeled the inspired infallible ‘perfect’ word of God)? It was originally just a letter or a story written down. How did this change happen? Why can’t it be what it says it is is stead of what men 300 years down the road decided it was. Can’t a guy write a letter to a church anymore without it being deified? Sheesh
If you are Mormon, you also have to add the “Book of Mormon” to a laundry list of writings decided by off by men to be “Word of God”.
Luke, for instance, starts out by saying he’s writing the book from 2nd hand witness accounts.
1Many have undertaken to draw up an account of the things that have been fulfilled[a] among us, 2just as they were handed down to us by those who from the first were eyewitnesses and servants of the word. 3Therefore, since I myself have carefully investigated everything from the beginning, it seemed good also to me to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus, 4so that you may know the certainty of the things you have been taught.
Cant we just keep it what it is? AND WHAT IT SAYS IT IS. This belief of the word of God being the exact word’s of our New Testament are based in early church tradition. I believe they were used as more of a control measure. This was important to keep the canon solid and unchangeable. In addition to this, some books were edited and left completely out for reasons that weren’t spiritual at all.
Actually, if I was a Mormon, I could easily refute everything you’re saying because Mormons only believe in scripture “as far as it is translated correctly”. They believe that people not only changed the Bible from original revelations received, but that men interpret scripture to their own advantage all the time. If anything, you seem like you would be the perfect Mormon. They believe people in those “councils” misinterpreted many revelations. Many scriptures were left out of the Bible completely, which is actually a collection of books that were written at different times. They also believe that it’s not just any man that can write scripture but that men have to be set apart by the laying on of hands, by the priesthood, to be prophets that receive revelation for Christ’s church- and then it’s scripture. That’s why there are scriptures in the first place and that there was a need for a restoration of the Church, after those “councils” and that it’s necessary for prophets to by called and set apart to lead the Church. Without that one characteristic of the Church, there is no possible way to know what is inspired revelation period. Mormons believe in modern day prophets as the original Church did.
That’s funny, you just refuted my attack on manmade doctrine and tradition with an entire explanation based on manmade doctrine and tradition. Clap Clap.
Prophets????? According to who? A group of people that define themselves as a religious organization?
I would be the perfect Mormon?….haha….What the heck makes you think I’d take Joseph Smith’s word for it and believe the glorious Book of Mormon.
It’s all true- open up that big history book of yours and look it up. If you like logical explanations, the Mormon one is the most logical to me. But, when it’s about God, man’s tiny little logical explanations are nothing considering we were made by Him. So, in order to believe that he has called prophets in our time and given them the Priesthood, you would probably need to ask Him. Do you know what that would do Jerry? That would take man completely out of the equation.
How do you think I ended up where I’m at?……..which is precisely why you don’t label personal human revelations as fact. Many of them don’t match.
Correct me if I’m wrong but doesn’t the book of Mormon talk about metal coinage in the Americas and huge battles with bronze shields and swords? Isn’t the archaeological evidence for the things described in the book pretty thin?
Doesn’t it make the claim that these things existed in the Americas long before they were actually introduced.
Silk : Alma 4:6, Nephi 13:7, Alma 1:29
Horses: mEnos 1:21, Alma 18:9, 3 Nephi 3: 1, Nephi 18:25
Steel: Jarom 1:8, 2 Nephi 5:15,16, 1 Nephi 4:9, 16:18
Iron: 2 Nephi 5:15, 20:34, Jarom 1:8, Mosiah 11:8
Coins: Alma 11:5-19
Donkeys: 1 Nephi 18:25, Mosiah 5:14, 12:5
Cattle, Cows, and Oxen: Enos 1:21; 3 Nephi 3:22, 6: 1 Nephi 18:25
Pigs: 3 Nephi 7:8
Grain and Wheat: Mosiah 9:9; Helaman 11:17
If I remember correctly there were huge battles in the book of Mormon. With swords, shields, bows and there’s no evidences. Also how do 2 million people die in a battle and there’s no evidence? Where are their coins, their swords, their axes…….? No where else in the world do things just not show up. It wasn’t even that long ago.
Hmm…….surely if you spent this much time investigating the Book of Mormon, at some point you actually prayed and asked God if it was true. I’ve heard all those same references and one by one they are proven in the passing years. I’m sure more will be discovered in the future. The horse one is by far the most common. Scientific evidence doesn’t increase faith though. If you need to however, feel free to check out the horse remains found in areas of New Mexico. It’s not like CNN is going to make a breaking news announcement that the Book of Mormon is true because of horse bones. The thing is Jerry, scientists could build a big museum full of artifacts of Book of Mormon times and there would still be some reason not to believe. Christ lived on earth and healed people and was still crucified. That’s why Christ taught about faith and the Holy Ghost. So we can have those answers that you have obviously been looking for. I swear I understand more and more everyday why it says that the meek will inherit the Earth. People just have too much confidence in their own wisdom. Have you studied the Mayans? How many mysteries remain there? Hmm……A TON. If you pray and get an answer for yourself- and not from anti-church books or research- than it doesn’t actually matter where the old coins are. Just pray and ask. If your answer is no then I’m sure it won’t bother you so much and you can move on.
Hmmm, You say your not a Mormon but then you tell Jerry that he should ignore evidence and reasonable assuptions and “have faith”. Interesting
Congrats……you’ve done the exact same thing nearly every world religion has. Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, Christianity. Anytime there is an illogical fallacy or lack of evidence……just have faith. Don’t use that brain up there, just believe, listen to God and hope you won the geographical jackpot and was born in an area or family that believes in the right kind of God.
If I was born in Afghanistan raised as a Muslim, I believe this would be my same answer to you. Just have faith and listen to God. Your, ignore the “evidence” slant doesn’t do much for showing people from other faiths, your truth in Mormonism. As spiritual experience is not exclusive to the Mormon faith.
Hmmm, WRONG. When did I ever say what religion I was? Place answer here _______. When did I ever say to ignore evidence and reasonable assumptions? Place answer here ________. Faith without works is DEAD. That’s what I believe. It’s not just “have faith”. I’ve never said that. If you believe in God, you ask him what you want to know and see if you feel like how the scriptures say the Holy Ghost feels. Kinda simple. People just make it complicated. You don’t just “have faith” and wait and believe in everything. Thad, you couldn’t be more wrong about what I’ve said or believe so congrats to you.
Who said spiritual evidence was exclusive to the Mormon faith? Place answer here ______. Mormons, by the way, don’t believe that it’s just the ones that “win the geographical jackpot” that go to Heaven. That’s ridiculous but so are most of the wrong assumptions that you’ve made so far. Mormons, unlike many faiths, believe that you’re only accountable for what you know about God. If you’re born somewhere where your faith is based on a flower pot, well then that’s all you would be accountable for. God is just. Hello- simple.
So, since you’ve gotten everything wrong about me and Mormons so far, what’s next?
:”Actually, if I was a Mormon”
Implies you are not a Mormon.
“If you pray and get an answer for yourself- and not from anti-church books or research- than it doesn’t actually matter where the old coins are.”
If my special communications with God tell me the the book of Mormon is the truth and there’s no evidence supporting or contrary evidence; there’s a problem.
So, you apparently have a little problem of interpreting things your own way. It can be fixed by actually humbling yourself enough to listen to someone. You think things are “implied” and then just decide without finding out. Look at my quotes and then look at your answers. They are Your version of what you want to think I’m saying. Do you realize how much that impedes understanding something in your communication with others? .
Like I’ve said before, there is evidence but it means nothing to a doubter who is dead set on blocking themself to what he’she wants to believe. There is a clear formula for getting an answer from God in the scriptures. If you followed that formula and felt that you clearly had an answer, then why on earth would you Not believe it?
That little roleplay with the Eskimo is cute and all but the Mormon church believes that we are all here to spiritually progress by choosing the right through opposition. That’s how we learn to prepare ourselves to have all that God has. The church believes he went through the same. It’s an eternal progression. You have to think on an eternal perspective. The Mormons believe that every soul will have the opportunity to learn all they need to, whether it be in this life, or the Spirit world after this life. So no one misses out. Isn’t that nifty? Why not try for two seconds to learn about it instead of thinking you’re so witty and smart with all of life’s answers? Humble yourself for a minute and you might stop criticizing others’ beliefs and get something done.
“If you’re born somewhere where your faith is based on a flower pot, well then that’s all you would be accountable for. God is just. Hello- simple.”
Then what’s the point? Seems the the best thing to do would be to destroy all religious texts to save people from the possibility of eternal damnation.
Eskimo: If I did not know about God and sin, would I go to hell?
Priest: No, not if you did not know.
Eskimo: Then why did you tell me?
I’m not really seeing either of you has humble. You both seem pretty set in your ways and sure of your own position. Thomas seems to believe he is the possessor of Mormon truth, while Jerry is a fence sitter on religion as a whole.
Well doodie pants, considering you were the one who disrespected an entire religion by posting ridiculous, misguided, and WRONG information in the first place, I wouldn’t expect you to support any comment that would actually defend the Mormon religion. But when someone is in error about what they like to think is fact, and somebody else can enlighten them, I believe it’s important to do so- to educate the religious biggot. Maybe your time would be better spent concentrating on what you can do to uplift others instead of trashing peoples’ beliefs that you know almost nothing about. Actually, you should be grateful to us for this much activity on your discussion board.
The cartoons may have portrayed some aspects of Mormonism in a way that you perceive as offensive, but keep in mind if you took similar stories from the Bible and made a cartoon it would look pretty ridiculous too. (Ex. Angels falling, Nephilim, Creation, tree of knowledge, impregnation of Mary, etc) Pretty much another ‘space drama’
The special undergarments are true…….and hilarious. I know that many of the claims in the cartoon are true and that there are some that are off. It was true enough and entertaining enough to post. I was more concerned with the racial issues as the title suggests.
The stories of those with the blackened skin are inaccurate? the related quotes were false as well? Please enlighten everyone.
I just checked out http://www.exmormon.org/
What fun…….
If it makes you feel any better look, I’ve trashed a few others. haha
http://doodiepants.com/2010/06/22/questions-and-answers-from-islam-qa-com-part-1/
http://doodiepants.com/2009/06/04/farting-preacher/
http://doodiepants.com/2009/08/17/india-markets-cow-urine-softdrink-a-gift-from-the-gods/
http://doodiepants.com/2009/08/26/are-heterosexual-taliban-a-dying-breed-gay/
http://doodiepants.com/2009/08/09/scientology-southpark/
http://doodiepants.com/2009/06/25/4000-evil-jews-planned-911-ridiculous/
http://doodiepants.com/2009/06/06/virgin-mary-underpass-apparition-vandaalized-with-horns-and-666/
Yeah well those Bible drawings that might be “ridiculous” to you are important and sacrad to others. It usually says something about someone when they continually try to find fault in what others consider holy.
I already addressed the undergarments. Why would you post a cartoon where “some” things are off? Something that is even a little “off” is misleading and pollutes the truth. It’s just a cheap way to try to get laughs. It’s actually pretty sad. If you were so concerned with the “racial” issue- which happens to be from a theory of one man and Completely wrong- and Not Mormon doctrine- (you’d know that if you actually did more research than looking up the website of some disgruntled ex-Mormon), then I wonder if you’re also concerned about being a religious biggot? Oh yes, that’s right, it’s ok to make fun of Christians and Mormons, just not anything else. I wonder if you’d have the guts to post cartoons about Muslims. Please, enlighten everyone. You’re a coward.
If you actually read the Book of Mormon, and studied the doctrine, you would realize that your “stories of blackened skin” are completely off and interpreted racially when they are not. But, I wonder if you would even want to know it wasn’t racial. In my experience, most little armchair warriors like you would rather have something misinterpreted (at the expense of how another race might feel) and get attention then actually study the truth. So let’s see what you’ve accomplished: you’ve made a black person reading this feel bad and hated so you can get some attention and laughs and you’ve disrespected and lied about an entire religion, that people hold sacrad, to do it. Wow, congratulations. Go ahead and ask a black person how they felt after reading your post. Did it uplift them and make them feel better? Hmm. Enlighten us. Try going to a Mormon church and asking Mormons. What a concept.
If it makes you feel any better look, I’ve trashed a few others. haha
http://doodiepants.com/2010/06/22/questions-and-answers-from-islam-qa-com-part-1/
http://doodiepants.com/2009/06/04/farting-preacher/
http://doodiepants.com/2009/08/17/india-markets-cow-urine-softdrink-a-gift-from-the-gods/
http://doodiepants.com/2009/08/26/are-heterosexual-taliban-a-dying-breed-gay/
http://doodiepants.com/2009/08/09/scientology-southpark/
http://doodiepants.com/2009/06/25/4000-evil-jews-planned-911-ridiculous/
http://doodiepants.com/2009/06/06/virgin-mary-underpass-apparition-vandaalized-with-horns-and-666/
Even this is misinterpreted and taken out of context………?
1947 the First Presidency (supreme council) of the Church issued an Official Statement: “From the days of the Prophet Joseph Smith even until now, it has been the doctrine of the Church, never questioned by Church leaders, that the Negroes are not entitled to the full blessings of the Gospel.” (Statement of The First Presidency on the Negro Question, July 17 1947, quoted in Mormonism and the Negro, pp.46-7)
I got nearly all of I ideas about Mormonism from ex Mormons and current Mormons.
You’re the exact sort of responder I wanted. Muchisma Gracias.
Why would it make me feel any better that you’ve trashed others? I think it’s pathetic. And your statement is completely FALSE. Statement from, “The First Presidency on the Negro Question”? Are you kidding me? Here, why don’t you quote me an this: “Doodiepants wants to be a terrorist.” I guess I could mutilate that all I wanted and make it look official somewhere on the internet, couldn’t I? I guess I could write an anti-Doodiepants book. And everyone better believe it because Everything online or in a book is always true! Your research is amateur and ridiculous if this is what you base your findings on.
Joseph Smith, himself, ordained black men to the Priesthood. Oh wait, you probably never got that far in your “research”. Do you know how much anti-Mormon (completely false) literature is out there? Well, I guess you might since that’s what you use to “research” the Mormon church. Have you ever attended a Mormon church? Have you read the Book or Mormon? Have you taken the missionary discussions? Please, enlighten us. Gee, I wonder if I could find out all the “truths” of the Baptist church or Islam by going to an “ex-Baptist” or “ex-believer of Islam” who is probably bitter because they were offended by some other church member. People that are searching for truth don’t sit and dwell on what they don’t believe anymore. They are excited by what they’ve found and they work on bettering themselves.
What is interesting is how obsessed you are with finding fault in the Mormon church. I actually don’t see how you find the time since finding fault appears to be your full-time job. Have you ever entertained the thought that you might be happier on a daily basis if you did something more constructive and uplifting?
And by the way, it’s “Muchisimas Gracias”. Supongo que te falten mas investigaciones de espanol tambien. Actually, maybe you spelled it like that because sometimes, when people are trying to imitate someone they hear speak Spanish, they don’t realize that people from certain Spanish-speaking regions will drop the “s” as part of their linguistic pattern. It’s always written though. Ok, now go look up some more gems of knowledge for me. I’ll be waiting……..
One thing more. If you’re going to continue on about the acceptance of the Dark skinned folks in the church, then you have to ignore a LOT of quotes from your Brig Young and other in the 20th century. And my apologies for quoting from an Ex-Mormon…..but am I to believe that all of these quotes about the inferiority and the cursed black race are false or that every single one of these is taken out of context?
http://www.exmormon.org/blacks1.htm
Mormon are the ones that don’t seem to care about how a darker skinned individual may feel. Not me. I’m just glad they changed most of their policies concerning the “Negroes”.
Also is this quote below also a lie? If so I’ll be happy to delete it.
1947 the First Presidency (supreme council) of the Church issued an Official Statement: “From the days of the Prophet Joseph Smith even until now, it has been the doctrine of the Church, never questioned by Church leaders, that the Negroes are not entitled to the full blessings of the Gospel.” (Statement of The First Presidency on the Negro Question, July 17 1947, quoted in Mormonism and the Negro, pp.46-7)
I don’t believe in “Black” anyway.
http://doodiepants.com/2010/01/13/barack-obama-is-not-black/
In your quest to prove how not “racist” you are and how “racist” the Mormon church is, you missed my latest answer to your obsessive Mormon bash saga. It’s also funny how you quote the word “Negroes” as if it wasn’t part of common language less than 80 years ago. Black people used it my dear friend so sorry, you can’t really use that one as “I ain’t a racist but the Mormons are” ammunition. And yes, your “Official Statements” are wrong and out of context. Oh, but wait- how could I think that “exmormon.com” would ever provide false information or take anything out of context about the Mormon church? What am I thinking!
I don’t think the word “Negroes” is a racist word. It’s just the word that was commonly used that the time.
And do you really expect to find anything contrary to the Mormon faith from Pro-Mormon sources? It goes both ways.
I’m quite aware of Joseph Smith ordaining a dark skinned man into the priest hood. There were no restrictions from 1832 to 1848. Then Brig Young brought the Cain doctrine in and it lasted until 1978. I suppose this is a lie too? Maybe you need to do some research.
http://www.nhfelt.org/Doc_Other/Woodruff_Wilford.pdf
Here’s a copy of Woodruff journal. Be sure see Jan 1852 and do also some searches for Negro.
“The Lord said I will not kill Cain, but I will put a mark upon him and it is seen in the face of every Negro on earth. And it is the degree of God that that mark shall remain upon the seed of Cain and the Curse until all the seed of Abel should be redeemed and Cain will not hold the priesthood until all the seed of Abel are redeemed. Any man having one drop of the seed of Cain in him cannot hold the Priesthood and if no other Prophet spake it before I will say it now in the name of Jesus Christ.”
I suppose the Wilford Woodruff’s Journal is all made up anti Mormon BS too?
Thank you for correcting my speellling. I’m glad your arguments have dwindled to that.
Ahhhh and the one drop rule rears it’s ugly head again. This is the paragraph just below the W.W. journal quote above.
“But the seed of Abel will be ahead of the seed of Cain to all eternity. Let me consent
today to mingle my seed with the seed of Cain, it would bring the same curse
upon me. And it would upon any man. And if any man mingle his seed with the
seed of Cain, the only way he could get rid of it or have salvation would be
to come forward and have his head cut off and spill his blood upon the ground.
It would also take the life of his children.”
This is in context……Seed of Cain = Negro
Still denying?
Do you know what “doctrine” actually is? This seems to be a hard one for you to get a grip on. Book of Mormon=Mormon doctrine. Doctrine and Covenants=Mormon doctrine. Pearl of Great Price=Mormon Doctrine. Bible (as far as it is translated correctly)=Mormon doctrine.
Oh yeah, back to the original questions you never answered. Have you ever read the Book of Mormon? Have you actually regulary attended a Mormon church? Have you ever taken the missionary discussions? Have you spend endless hours online on anti-Mormon sites filled with random quotes taken out of context that are not, and never had been, included in Mormon doctrine? BINGO! Got one!!!
This is so simple and it blows my mind how you’re not getting it. Hmm, have you researched the journals of people in other faiths too? Have you read what Charles Darwin’s journal contains? Have you read Martin Luther’s? How about Ghandi’s? Oh wait, you probably have read Ghandi’s because rumor has it, he was a racist. I wonder what Michelle Obama’s journal contains. I wonder if that would ever be taken out of context and manipulated by people looking for any negative molecule they want to believe about her.
Cain=black people=Not Mormon doctrine. One day you’ll get it. Till then just keep looking on those oh so informative anti-Mormon sites that a ten year old could create.
And PS, I was correcting your Spanish, not your spelling. OH no!!! Could I, just possibly be one of those Browns? When are you gonna defend My people??? We need you Doodiepants! You are so progressive and understand all of us minorities so well!
I’m not here to defend anybody. You seem the be in denial that there was an belief system in the church based around this seed of cain concept or at the very least, anti-negro. I posted a copy of a Mormon source and quote from it. All I receive from you is an over emotional rant. You’ve made claims about Mormonism’s history that don’t fit with actual history. Everything is……out of context. Read Wilford Woodruff’s journal. I understand W.W.;s journal in not a Mormon religious text, but it is an important record from the early church. It’s not taken out of context. I followed up on other crazy quotes by other Mormons , Including Brig Young. Most of them are in context and just as ridiculous.
I’ve read the book of Mormon, the Koran, and the Bible. I don’t care if Gandi was racist. This has nothing to do with me or my personal beliefs; the only thing to focus on is the subject at hand. If you were a Mormon, I’d hope you had more solid information against my statement and things like this journal; not to mention the bevy of Brigham Young quotes that go directly against what you’re saying, and not “made up”. Well, other than your standard comeback…..that every single one is out of context.
I live in Central America with my Central American family. Your childish “brown” comments are entertaining and sad. I’m glad you see you’re sinking to that level.
Doodiepants, again, you’re not reading any Mormon doctrine. Your definition of a “Mormon source” ISN’T DOCTRINE. How do you not understand this? Why would I need to defend someone’s journal? It’s not Mormon doctrine. You just believe what you want to believe about the Mormons. All you have are quotes Doodie. You haven’t quoted ANY doctrine. This is such a weak debate, honestly. If you really read the Book of Mormon, you would know this. There is absolutely NOTHING saying that the seed of Cain=Black people. Doodie, seriously, you have got to realize how ridiculous it is to argue Mormon doctrine and NOT USE Mormon doctrine!
You live in Central America and don’t know that Muchisimas gracias has an “s”? Are you in the process of learning the language down there? Are you mad that I’m brown? Are we going to have an I’m browner than you contest? Are you sad that I’m not a whitey and you can’t assume that I’m a full-on racist anymore? How many hours a day do you spend online, looking up anti-Mormon info? Do you have a novia?
Ps, “reading” the Book of Mormon means more than looking up quotes to scriptures from anti-Mormon sites. It means reading the whole thing, from start to finish. You’ll probably claim that you have anyway but let me promise you this: If you actually read that book from the introduction to the end, you will know it’s inspired text. It will change your life. You don’t have to tell me of course, since this is a “who’s right and who’s wrong” battle for you, but I dare you to read it. Then, you can begin talking about Mormon doctrine without being an uneducated religious biggot.
I’ve heard the missionary discussions more times than I can count and one thing that makes me want to be a Mormon is that of all the churches I’ve been to, Mormons are the only ones that I don’t hear tearing down others’ beliefs. The only ones. They don’t spend their time talking about ridiculous rumors and trying to sound witty. They work on their own doctrine and bettering themselves- or donating and doing more service for the rest of the world than any organization on the planet.
In the Bible, it’s mentioned that in the last days, the true church of Christ will be persecuted and Satan will incite people’s anger against it. Notice how you just can’t let this one go?
This isn’t an issue of hating the church…..it’s issue you not being able to answer these questions about the history of Blacks in the Mormon church. Were the 2 statements above held and believed by the church?
And nobody thinks you’re a racist nor ever said that you were. This issue has been the history of the Mormon faith. You could be a card carrying member of the KKK and it wouldn’t matter to be as long as you could keep on subject.
I love how you bring up the same things, then get excited and go search for more, and then come back and post again within about 10 minutes. It’s the same thing over and over again. I’ll try to do this in order: The two statements you’re talking about (your journal quotes)- like I’ve pointed out A MILLION TIMES are not church doctrine.
As for as the Book of Mormon being a “dangerous” text, go ahead and point out any doctrine in there that you consider “dangerous” and I’ll be happy to talk about it. In your words, “Please enlighten us”. Since you’ve supposedly read it, like you said, those “dangerous” doctrines that are hurting so many should pop into your head left and right. I wonder what’s more “dangerous” to our youth, “Keeping up with the Kardashians” or the Book of Mormon. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!
I dare you to use Mormon religious doctrine in this discussion. Do you not because you can’t find anything that backs up your anti-Mormon claims?
Words from somebody’s journal are their journal- not Mormon doctrine. You seem to never be able to understand this. Ps, can I borrow your neighbor’s journal to use against whatever church she goes to in Central America? It’s really been a dream of mine. And ps, I want to make sure not to read any of the context around whatever quotation I find. Thanks doodie, just Fed-ex it.
I know this “Muchisima” incident is really bothering you. Just out of curiosity though, are you an American who moved to Central America? My guess is that you just won’t answer if the answer is yes because you want to feel more authentic. That’s just my judgement though so pay no mind to it son.
And lastly, the question of the millenium, (the one where you think you really got them Mormons in a corner), THERE WAS NO POLICY INTERPRETED FROM THE BOOK OF MORMON THAT KEPT BLACKS OUT OF THE PRIESTHOOD. I can’t put it any more clear than that. You are desperately trying to refer to a non-doctrinal opinion of some individuals in the early days of the church. NOT MORMON DOCTRINE. The apostles of the church clarified it in 1978 that all people are to have the Priesthood. Keep desperately clinging to this though.
Here’s a gem of knowledge that I’m sure you’ll love to ignore. There was an Extermination Order sent out by the federal government when the Mormons moved west from Ohio and Illinois and then settled in Missouri. It made it legal to kill a Mormon. This, because Mormons were opposed to slavery and Missouri, at the time, permitted it. Oh doodie!!!! What shall we do with this little blurb of info!!!
If you’re really concerned about racism, you might want to come back to the United States. In many areas of Latin America, “black-face” cartoon is still in use, people with indigenous blood “los indios” are persecuted, the governments are run by the lightest-skined people, and they ain’t had a black president yet, even in Brazil- the last country in the Americas and Europe to outlaw slavery. Parts of Africa still have it.
Haha……
The book of Mormon is obviously dangerous in the same way many other books are. It’s not even what’s in it that matters, it’s how the large organized group of men interpret said book and build doctrine for the masses. I quite clearly did not say that that journal was not a religions text. “I understand W.W.’s journal in not a Mormon religious text, but it is an important record from the early church. It’s not taken out of context.” It is a pro-Mormon source. I tried to use a pro-Mormon source source since you seemed to think that all I read was anti-Mormon sources.
2 QUESTIONS:
1.) Are you stating that the words of the church Apostles recorded in that journal are false also?
2.) Was there no policy that kept black skinned people out of the priesthood due to an interpretation from the Book of Mormon from roughly 1948 to 1978? please anawesr and make clear. Because all I can seem to find is that they are. (from Mormon and non Mormon sources)
Once again……it was a misspelling. Muchisima
Stop wasting your breath on my Spanish misspelling, my background, or the color of your or my skin. It’s irrelevant.
Black priesthood holder recalls historic day
http://www.mormontimes.com/article/1900/Black-priesthood-holder-recalls-historic-day
Mormon Source
Doodietwoshoes,
I replied to your 3 beautiful new posts after the 1st one because I hit reply up there.
The journal isn’t just some random dude’s journal. Wilford Woodruff was an Apostle(in the 12), the church historian for 6 years and became the president. ONCE AGAIN…..I’M NOT SAYING HIS JOURNAL IS A RELIGIOUS TEXT. I’M ONLY REFERRING TO IT AS A “PRO MORMON SOURCE”. As opposed to using anti Mormon sources.
http://www.lds.org/churchhistory/presidents/controllers/potcController.jsp?topic=facts&leader=4
If you want to say that his journal is full of falsities…….OK. I’ll find another one. It’s tough to get official Chruch docs. All I can find is things and writings from Apostles and church Presidents. And I can’t quote from the Book of Mormon because you say that I’ve misinterpreted things, but when I give quote from Brigham Young or anyone else(to show how they and or the early church interpreted the BOM), you state that their either false or that their taken out of context. It seems impossible to win. I like you to show me how the the quote from W.W.’s journal was “out of context”. haha
In 1978 they just “clarified” it. If that was you call it. Well, this minor clarification was apparently an historic day for the black Mormons because now they could be admitted. And while most they seem to refer to it as the “1978 Revelation” you just call it a clarification.
http://www.mormontimes.com/article/5812/Untold-Story-of-Black-Mormons-is-told?s_cid=search_queue&utm_source=search_queue
Are you still in denial that there was a ban against blacks in the priesthood until 1978? What are all these Mormon Times links referring to then? If it’s not “official doctrine, but the entire church seems to follow it……then who cares. Blacks were banned from the priesthood until 1978 that’s a fact. Go ahead say it’s not Church doctrine, but it happened.
It’s quite easy to use various scriptures in the bible to support such things. And, in the past people have used the bible to support slavery and oppression toward various races. With the multiple “black skinned” and “curse of Cain” comments in the Book of Mormon I don’t see why you find it so difficult to believe that the earlier Mormon church could have interpreted such thing and made the priesthood ban based on them. Especially due to the social status of those of African decent in the 19th and 20th centuries.
Half of your posts usually emotionally rant about subject irrelevant to the discussion. Please stay on subject. I don’t care who you are I only care about this discussion.
It’s good that many Mormons were opposed to slavery. A credit to them! This is not historically denied.
Wow, you just don’t get this do you? Doodiepants, QUOTE FROM CHURCH DOCTRINE- USE THE RELIGIOUS TEXTS THAT THE MORMONS USE. Waiting for you to quote from the Book of Mormon- that you’ve supposedly read……..Waiting, waiting, waiting. THERE ARE NO CURSE OF CAIN=BLACK PEOPLE REFERENCES IN THE BOOK OF MORMON. There is NO WAY you read this book unless you have no memory whatsoever. .
And the half of my discussions that you call “an emotional rant” are all questions that you can’t answer or don’t want to face. You are so concerned about Mormons being racist so racism is Completely on-topic.
Notice how doodie didn’t answer if he came from the United States or not! Ha ha ha ha ha!
Wow…..way to dodge the question. You totally ignored my last post. That’s was belief of the church derived from the book of Mormon and popular culture at the time. Just like the catholic church, there are many many things that are done and believed that aren’t specifically in the Bible.(Christmas, praying to Mary, traditions in the church etc) Yet are supported by the bible.
I already did quote from the Book of Mormon at the top of the page in the original post. You said my book of Mormon quotes were misinterpreted. You said my quotes from the First Presidency in 1947 were false. You said my journal written by a president, historian and apostle of the Mormon church was My only choice was to post quotes from your leaders. If you want to discount and ignore everything.
Once again……how does my heritage play into Mormon doctrine? You’re’s doesn’t play into it. That’s why I don’t harass you. ?Me giving up nor do I think ANYONE should be giving up personal info on a public board. And how does me being born in the US or in Central America have anything to do with me being racist?
I was born and grew up in the US. I’ve lived all over world for the last 1/3 of my life. You only make your arguments look weak when you spend time attacking me instead of my statements. You being brown or beige is irrelevant to me.
Here’s some more quotes below. It’s pretty easy to see how a doctrine and church tradition could be built around these, whether they’re improperly quoted or not.
Book of Mormon
1 Nephi 11:13 (Mary) “she was exceedingly fair and white.”
1 Nephi 12:23 (prophecy of the Lamanites) ” became a dark, and loathsome, and a filthy people, full of idleness and all manner of abominations.”
1 Nephi 13:15 (Gentiles) “they were white, and exceedingly fair and beautiful, like unto my people [Nephites] before they were slain.”
2 Nephi 5:21 “a sore cursing . . . as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them.”
2 Nephi 30:6 (prophecy to the Lamanites if they repented) “scales of darkness shall begin to fall. . . . they shall be a white and delightsome people” (“white and delightsome” was changed to “pure and delightsome” in 1981).
Jacob 3:5 (Lamanites cursed) “whom ye hate because of their filthiness and the cursing which hath come upon their skins. . . .”
Jacob 3:8-9 “their skins will be whiter than yours… revile no more against them because of the darkness of their skins. . . .”
Alma 3:6 “And the skins of the Lamanites were dark, according to the mark which was set upon their fathers, which was a curse upon them because of their transgression and their rebellion.”
Alma 3:9 “whosoever did mingle his seed with that of the Lamanites did bring the same curse upon his seed.”
Alma 3:14 (Lamanites cursed) “set a mark on them that they and their seed may be separated from thee and thy seed. . . .”
Alma 23:18 “[Lamanites] did open a correspondence with them [Nephites] and the curse of God did no more follow them.”
3 Nephi 2:14-16 “Lamanites who had united with the Nephites were numbered among the Nephites; And their curse was taken from them, and their skin became white like unto the Nephites and . . . became exceedingly fair. . . . ”
3 Nephi 19:25, 30 (Disciples) “they were as white as the countenance and also the garments of Jesus; and behold the whiteness thereof did exceed all the whiteness. . . . nothing upon earth so white as the whiteness thereof… and behold they were white, even as Jesus.”
Mormon 5:15 (prophecy about the Lamanites) “for this people shall be scattered, and shall become a dark, a filthy, and a loathsome people, beyond the description of that which ever hath been amongst us. . . .”
Pearl of Great Price
Moses 7:8 “a blackness came upon all the children of Canaan. . . .”
Moses 7:12 “Enoch continued to call upon all the people, save it were [i.e., except] the people of Canaan, to repent. . . .”
Moses 7:22 “.for the seed of Cain were black and had not place among them.”
Abraham 1:21 ” king of Egypt [Pharaoh] was a descendant from the loins of Ham, and was a partaker of the blood of the Canaanites by birth.”
Abraham 1:27 “Pharaoh being of that lineage by which he could not have the right of Priesthood. . . .”
Here’s a question you can’t seem to directly answer. I’ve given promormon quotes, journals, and new links to support the asking of this question. You’ve given nothing.
Were African decent people banned from the Mormon priesthood from 1848 to 1978?
Ha ha ha ha ha! I knew you were American, born and bred. I knew in so many ways. And that’s not personal information, good grief- nice excuse for not answering. You just didn’t want to admit that you were American. In my opinion of course. Ha ha ha ha. You wanted me to think you were Central American by stating “My Central American family”. Oh please. What are you, a foreign exchange student? Oh, yes, saying you were born in the states is So personal. Much more personal that attacking peoples’ religions and making a mockery of what is sacrad to them. 10 points for doodie!
I wonder how much time you spent looking up those quotes, or did they already have them listed on your anti-Mormon sites? Thank you for Finally using the actual scriptures! The only problem is, you lack humility. If you’re racing through quotes thinking, “Oh I’m sure gonna get that Thomas with this one!” you will never be teachable and understand others’ beliefs.
Now, I will set your mind at ease. “White” is referring to “pure”. And yes, Mormons do believe that the Lamanites (the people who are the descendants of the indigenous people of the Americas, NOT BLACK PEOPLE, were marked by God so they would not mix with the Nephites because, at that time, the Lamanites had been cursed for their wickedness and were being distinguished from the Nephites- who were descendents of Jews and the Middle East, not white Europeans by the way. The Nephites had been blessed along with their posterity.
“Filthy” also means dirty in the spiritual sense. The color, itself, was not supposed to be bad- just a mark. That was in that generation of people. Of course the mark remained but the curse did not because God is just and doesn’t punish people for their fathers’ sins. So, anyone saying in our time that this color means sin is wrong. In Jacob, it’s talking about the Lamanites becoming whiter than the Nephites because they were becoming more richeous. In other words, they would be more pure at the last day. “Blackness” is often referred to in the scriptures (Bible included) as sin or iniquity. The question would be, why are You associating the mark of Cain with the Black people of today? It could have been any dark marking or reference.
Doodie, you will keep this conversation going till the end of time because it’s so important to you to think that you’re holding people accountable for their own beliefs- beliefs you don’t understand and know very little about. You really just need to get off the computer and go out and learn about the world around you. You are not smarter than all the world’s religions. There are important reasons why people believe the things that they do. This will be my last reply to you because at least I could set the record straight for anyone following this- and not just leave it to your biggoted remarks. However, if I keep responding I’m just giving your site more hits and more attention- which I refuse to do- because, in essence, it’s a site full of hate and bigotry. Your bigotry is no better than racism or sexism.
Why don’t you go ask a black Mormon how they feel about the Mormon church? Ask some Central Americans. Don’t decide for black people or Hispanic people what they should be offended by for them. Give them more credit. You do not know what it’s like to be somebody that you’re not.
Finally, read the Book of Mormon from the introduction to the last page- where there is a promise that if you read it and then ask God, with sincere intent, if it’s true, the truth will be manifest to you, And you will know, by how you feel, that it’s a true book. I know it’s true. See you in the afterlife dood.
Were African decent people banned from the Mormon priesthood from 1848 to 1978?
You still haven’t answered this.
Or just in case 1848 was a date from a bunk source……Was a there a period of time finishing in 1978 that had a specific race of people banned from the Priesthood.
Stop wasting time with your over emotional stabs and mush. I’m so sure what my race or heritage has to do with anything. Yours means nothing to me.